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Niki jan, I know Prof.Milani since I moved to Bay area and respect him for what he does. He knows Iranian history quite well and also cares about Iran. I see him in the area so I don't really need to go to his talk at Boston. But since his talk is organized by my friends, I thought its a good place to see all the friends at once.
I am asking you this as a historian (rather a wanna be), what do you mean by “knows Iranian history quite well?” Something in the lines of this guy came after that dude and here are the dates? Now what are Milani’s contributions to Iranian historiography, his obsession with modernity, democracy and middle class? Or the good old storytelling linear plot of our fag Minster to prime, who failed to flee his fate [Hoveiyda]? You think he loves Iran? Why do you think so? Does working in a neo-liberal Hoover, all for exploitation and war in the Middle East, approve that? How about the numerous meetings with Bush? As someone concerned with the representation of Iran in western media, I urge you to read Hoover Digest and Milani’s articles in particular.
As someone who has been following your blog for quite sometime, I am positive you’ll feel rather uneasy about what you may find in these articles. On a friendly note, I am coming to Boston as well. Kaveh is coming on the 14th and I’ll be there to spend some time with him. I guess I’ll see you at Milani’s talk
Is this the article you wanted me to look at? http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/pubaffairs/newsletter/03042/milani.html
I found this quote from Milani in the article:
"Within Iran is a very genuine, indigenous democratic movement," said Milani. Although this movement is very strong, its prospects for victory will be damaged if the equilibrium of Iran is upset by a U.S. invasion. Milani said he hoped that whatever policy is adopted by the United States toward Iran, it will "have the patience to allow the development of this democratic movement."
I think this is one of the most compelling argument against a US invasion of Iran that has a chance of working in this climate. Was there something else that I missed?
As always, Mehdi Jan, I forgot to edit and found some abroorizi in the pervious comment to so I had to delete it. Yet , I can assure you the following response is also full of editing errors. It is 2:28 am so accept this from me:
I never said Milani is Pro-war. I said he works at a Pro-War institute: an institute that thinks about the war strategy and supports such war when the time is right. Look at the evolution of articles on Iraq war. For example I draw to your attention to this article:
Progressive Internationalism Report: A 'Democratic' National Security Strategy, 2003 http://www.ppionline.org/documents/Progressive_Internationalism_1003.pdf
Milani has worked closely with two of the contributors of this report, Larry Diamond and Mcfaul among others. In a nutshell they endorse the war in Iraq (or rather the invasion of Iraq) claiming that the democracy building project has failed and there is no hope for “democracy from within.” As for Larry Diamond, he has then wondered, “what [the fuck] went wrong in Iraq!!!” Read his article: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20040901faessay83505/larry-diamond/what-went-wrong-in-iraq.html
Of course for the same reasons that everything went wrong in Iraq, the Americans are yet not ready to invade anywhere else. Therefore, for the time being Bush himself is against the war. Nonetheless, for the time being, Dr. Miliani’s exporting of democracy agenda is at work. Read this article where Dr. Milani along with his friend and colleague the good old Mr. MacFual supports the Bush administrations $85 million for democracy in Iran: http://www.house.gov/israel/issues/Dem%20Website/Iran/Policy%20Options/Think%20Tanks/McFual%20and%20Milani%20-%20A%20Checking%20Acount%20for%20Democracy.pdf
“By committing to spend $85 million to promote democracy in Iran in the next fiscal year, the Bush administration has signaled a major escalation of its efforts to challenge autocracy in Tehran. At the level of grand strategy, this major policy revision should be welcomed and supported. Onprinciple, the U.S. should support the democratic aspirations of the Iranian people. For reasons of national security, Washington also has an interest in promoting democracy in Iran, as a democratic regime in Tehran would not threaten the U.S. or its allies and could serve as a powerful force for stability in the region.”
Now let the time come, when all the contributors of this article will express sympathy for the failed democracy project in Iran, when no hope is left but war. Mehdi Aziz, When dealing with Milani, you are dealing with a politician you have to be able to read between the lines. Milani supported the war in Iraq. He has never apposed any of the Bush administrations Middle East policies [keep in mind that war in Iran is not yet a policy adopted by those in power]. Popularity among Iranians is extremely important for someone in the position of Milani, there is no point in supporting a war in Iran, when no one in power can afford such war. Milani is known for making contradictory remarks. In the same article you have mentioned, he writes:
“Iranians today are one of the most pro-American peoples in the Middle East, he pointed out: "Iran is the only Muslim country that did not have a massive demonstrations against the United States" preceding and during the war in Iraq.”
Now as someone who cares about the media, what does this statement say about the Iranians? That they are pro-American and support blood-shed in the neighboring country? Fucking amazing eh? (I do not know what your policy of vulgarity is, so I allow myself to use the beep word from time to time). Do you yourself think that people in Iran did not join the anti-war movement because they were pro-war/pro-American? Want more? Read this article http://www.hooverdigest.org/032/milani.html Where he says: “The fact that Iran and Israel were the only two countries in the Middle East where no major demonstrations took place against the war with Iraq is yet another indicator of the strength, and maturity, of the Iranian civil society.” Fucking amazing argument! Now, I will give a D to that argument anytime if I were a professor of political philosophy! Not only because I have a problem with western export of democracy with neo-liberal agendas [i.e the $85 million] but also because I find Dr. Milani’s argument of civil society/middle class myth leading to democracy extremely problematic. On a more sarcastic notes, since when “not going to public demonstrations is a more mature civil society? I will promise you, that I will make Sima write on that in the future, as she is the Oostaa when it comes to problemtizing liberal democracy/middle class myth. Moreover, see how he keeps brining the Iranian people and the people of Israel together. It ain’t only for Dr. Milani’s love of peace that he does that!! Want more: Please read the hilarious Herald Tribune article: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/10/opinion/edmilani.php And read my anger at it in sibil: http://sibiltala.blogspot.com/2005/11/blog-post_113190634472268692.html
Now what is with the Iranians love Israel argument? What are we, 12 to hear all these love stories with happy-happy joy-joy endings? Want more?
See what Dr. Milani and good old McFaul advice to Bush for “regime change” in Iran: http://www.hooverdigest.org/042/mcfaul.html “President Bush should pursue a similar strategy toward the people of Iran today. The current political crisis underscores yet again the unique opportunity in Iran for democratic regime change. And if democracy succeeds in Iran, the positive reverberations around the region, including in Iraq and Afghanistan, will be enormous. The first and most important step in executing a new strategy for promoting democracy in Iran is to clarify the United States’ position vis-à-vis the current Iranian regime. The recent elections—and the loss of any semblance of a democracy within the power structure—make this task easier now than in the past. President Bush issued a bold statement of solidarity with the Iranian people a few days after the electoral coup. The administration must make clear that the United States has no intention of pursuing closer ties with Khamenei and his minions as a reward for dismantling their nuclear weapons program or for their promise of “cooperation” in keeping Iraqi Shiites calm. The Bush administration cannot be tempted into entering into negotiations with Khamenei or his surrogates. Bush and his administration must initiate a more sophisticated and comprehensive strategy for engaging Iranian society. Most immediately, democratic forces in Iran need moral support from their friends in the West. They want to be reassured that the international community of democracies, including the United States, is still on their side. As a simple gesture of solidarity, President Bush should deliver a major speech devoted to Iranian democracy. Over the long run, Iran’s democratic movement would benefit from greater contact with Western societies, more exposure to Western ideas, and more integration with Western economies. The same strategy and organizations that helped to engage Polish society (well, save the Catholic Church) must be deployed in Iran. The future of Iran, and its long-cherished hope of democracy, must and will be determined inside Iran. But the United States can play a crucial role by siding with the democratic aspirations of the Iranian people. At this crucial turning moment in the struggle for democracy in Iran, President Bush must make it clear that democracy, not arms control, is the paramount American foreign policy goal with respect to Iran. Arms control negotiations with the conservative mullahs may serve American short-term interests but at the expense of more lasting gains. Solidarity ultimately did more to end the Cold War than SALT I or any other Soviet-American arms control agreement. After all, if Iran becomes a liberal democracy, then the Iranian nuclear threat to the United States will disappear” Want more? I will personally go through every article that Milani has ever written as soon as I am done school. I really think it is my duty to do so.
Want my opinion? The guy is a wanna be Chalabi, the academic version 2006, very connected to the construct of power in the United Stated and that is problematic even if he is the biggest hugest Vatanparast of all times. He cannot work for this administration and not work within their neo-imperial agenda. He has to work within the rhetorics of the administration (i.e. war on terror, democracy building). He is not your ordinary academic and he is no Edward Said, who risks his position, his life going against the neo-imperialism of the United States in the Middle East. Now, I have respect for Edward Said.
We will have every Hizbollah women fucked by dogs. We will send Phallus of ours into ass of All priests moslems. We will have Khamenei and Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad and Khatami and Akbar Ganji fucked by a great penis Of donkey and whale . We will fuck all foreign government which help mullah. کیر سگ تو کس ننه سید اولاد پیغمبر و کس ننه خود پیامبر اسلام. کیر خوک تو کس ننه امام حسین. کیر خر تو کس ننه شیعیان. صلوات: الله و کیر خر تو کس ننه محمد و آل محمد. This is a beautiful cultural message for you.
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I know Prof.Milani since I moved to Bay area and respect him for what he does. He knows Iranian history quite well and also cares about Iran. I see him in the area so I don't really need to go to his talk at Boston. But since his talk is organized by my friends, I thought its a good place to see all the friends at once.
http://171.66.112.62/cgi-bin/MsmFind.exe?QUERY_ENCODING=UTF-8&CFGNAME=MssFindEN.cfg&QUERY=iran&AND_ON=Y&ALLCATS=X&AGE_WGT=0&NO_DL=X
As someone who has been following your blog for quite sometime, I am positive you’ll feel rather uneasy about what you may find in these articles.
On a friendly note, I am coming to Boston as well. Kaveh is coming on the 14th and I’ll be there to spend some time with him. I guess I’ll see you at Milani’s talk
My Mother read your blog and though that the talk was yesterday. So she went to Jefferson hall and guesses what....!!
Is this the article you wanted me to look at?
http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/pubaffairs/newsletter/03042/milani.html
I found this quote from Milani in the article:
"Within Iran is a very genuine, indigenous democratic movement," said Milani. Although this movement is very strong, its prospects for victory will be damaged if the equilibrium of Iran is upset by a U.S. invasion. Milani said he hoped that whatever policy is adopted by the United States toward Iran, it will "have the patience to allow the development of this democratic movement."
I think this is one of the most compelling argument against a US invasion of Iran that has a chance of working in this climate.
Was there something else that I missed?
I never said Milani is Pro-war. I said he works at a Pro-War institute: an institute that thinks about the war strategy and supports such war when the time is right. Look at the evolution of articles on Iraq war. For example I draw to your attention to this article:
Progressive Internationalism Report: A 'Democratic' National Security Strategy, 2003
http://www.ppionline.org/documents/Progressive_Internationalism_1003.pdf
Milani has worked closely with two of the contributors of this report, Larry Diamond and Mcfaul among others. In a nutshell they endorse the war in Iraq (or rather the invasion of Iraq) claiming that the democracy building project has failed and there is no hope for “democracy from within.” As for Larry Diamond, he has then wondered, “what [the fuck] went wrong in Iraq!!!”
Read his article:
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20040901faessay83505/larry-diamond/what-went-wrong-in-iraq.html
Of course for the same reasons that everything went wrong in Iraq, the Americans are yet not ready to invade anywhere else. Therefore, for the time being Bush himself is against the war.
Nonetheless, for the time being, Dr. Miliani’s exporting of democracy agenda is at work. Read this article where Dr. Milani along with his friend and colleague the good old Mr. MacFual supports the Bush administrations $85 million for democracy in Iran:
http://www.house.gov/israel/issues/Dem%20Website/Iran/Policy%20Options/Think%20Tanks/McFual%20and%20Milani%20-%20A%20Checking%20Acount%20for%20Democracy.pdf
“By committing to spend $85 million to promote democracy in Iran in the next fiscal year, the Bush administration has signaled a major escalation of its efforts to challenge autocracy in Tehran. At the level of grand strategy, this major policy revision should be welcomed and supported. Onprinciple, the U.S. should support the democratic aspirations of the Iranian people. For reasons of national security, Washington also has an interest in promoting democracy in Iran, as a democratic regime in Tehran would not threaten the U.S. or its allies and could serve as a powerful force for stability in the region.”
Now let the time come, when all the contributors of this article will express sympathy for the failed democracy project in Iran, when no hope is left but war.
Mehdi Aziz,
When dealing with Milani, you are dealing with a politician you have to be able to read between the lines. Milani supported the war in Iraq. He has never apposed any of the Bush administrations Middle East policies [keep in mind that war in Iran is not yet a policy adopted by those in power]. Popularity among Iranians is extremely important for someone in the position of Milani, there is no point in supporting a war in Iran, when no one in power can afford such war. Milani is known for making contradictory remarks. In the same article you have mentioned, he writes:
“Iranians today are one of the most pro-American peoples in the Middle East, he pointed out: "Iran is the only Muslim country that did not have a massive demonstrations against the United States" preceding and during the war in Iraq.”
Now as someone who cares about the media, what does this statement say about the Iranians? That they are pro-American and support blood-shed in the neighboring country? Fucking amazing eh? (I do not know what your policy of vulgarity is, so I allow myself to use the beep word from time to time). Do you yourself think that people in Iran did not join the anti-war movement because they were pro-war/pro-American?
Want more?
Read this article
http://www.hooverdigest.org/032/milani.html
Where he says:
“The fact that Iran and Israel were the only two countries in the Middle East where no major demonstrations took place against the war with Iraq is yet another indicator of the strength, and maturity, of the Iranian civil society.”
Fucking amazing argument! Now, I will give a D to that argument anytime if I were a professor of political philosophy! Not only because I have a problem with western export of democracy with neo-liberal agendas [i.e the $85 million] but also because I find Dr. Milani’s argument of civil society/middle class myth leading to democracy extremely problematic. On a more sarcastic notes, since when “not going to public demonstrations is a more mature civil society? I will promise you, that I will make Sima write on that in the future, as she is the Oostaa when it comes to problemtizing liberal democracy/middle class myth. Moreover, see how he keeps brining the Iranian people and the people of Israel together. It ain’t only for Dr. Milani’s love of peace that he does that!!
Want more:
Please read the hilarious Herald Tribune article:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/10/opinion/edmilani.php
And read my anger at it in sibil:
http://sibiltala.blogspot.com/2005/11/blog-post_113190634472268692.html
Now what is with the Iranians love Israel argument? What are we, 12 to hear all these love stories with happy-happy joy-joy endings?
Want more?
See what Dr. Milani and good old McFaul advice to Bush for “regime change” in Iran:
http://www.hooverdigest.org/042/mcfaul.html
“President Bush should pursue a similar strategy toward the people of Iran today. The current political crisis underscores yet again the unique opportunity in Iran for democratic regime change. And if democracy succeeds in Iran, the positive reverberations around the region, including in Iraq and Afghanistan, will be enormous.
The first and most important step in executing a new strategy for promoting democracy in Iran is to clarify the United States’ position vis-à-vis the current Iranian regime. The recent elections—and the loss of any semblance of a democracy within the power structure—make this task easier now than in the past.
President Bush issued a bold statement of solidarity with the Iranian people a few days after the electoral coup. The administration must make clear that the United States has no intention of pursuing closer ties with Khamenei and his minions as a reward for dismantling their nuclear weapons program or for their promise of “cooperation” in keeping Iraqi Shiites calm.
The Bush administration cannot be tempted into entering into negotiations with Khamenei or his surrogates. Bush and his administration must initiate a more sophisticated and comprehensive strategy for engaging Iranian society. Most immediately, democratic forces in Iran need moral support from their friends in the West. They want to be reassured that the international community of democracies, including the United States, is still on their side. As a simple gesture of solidarity, President Bush should deliver a major speech devoted to Iranian democracy.
Over the long run, Iran’s democratic movement would benefit from greater contact with Western societies, more exposure to Western ideas, and more integration with Western economies. The same strategy and organizations that helped to engage Polish society (well, save the Catholic Church) must be deployed in Iran.
The future of Iran, and its long-cherished hope of democracy, must and will be determined inside Iran. But the United States can play a crucial role by siding with the democratic aspirations of the Iranian people. At this crucial turning moment in the struggle for democracy in Iran, President Bush must make it clear that democracy, not arms control, is the paramount American foreign policy goal with respect to Iran. Arms control negotiations with the conservative mullahs may serve American short-term interests but at the expense of more lasting gains. Solidarity ultimately did more to end the Cold War than SALT I or any other Soviet-American arms control agreement. After all, if Iran becomes a liberal democracy, then the Iranian nuclear threat to the United States will disappear”
Want more?
I will personally go through every article that Milani has ever written as soon as I am done school. I really think it is my duty to do so.
Want my opinion?
The guy is a wanna be Chalabi, the academic version 2006, very connected to the construct of power in the United Stated and that is problematic even if he is the biggest hugest Vatanparast of all times. He cannot work for this administration and not work within their neo-imperial agenda. He has to work within the rhetorics of the administration (i.e. war on terror, democracy building). He is not your ordinary academic and he is no Edward Said, who risks his position, his life going against the neo-imperialism of the United States in the Middle East. Now, I have respect for Edward Said.
We will send Phallus of ours into ass of All priests moslems.
We will have Khamenei and Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad and Khatami and Akbar Ganji fucked by a great penis Of donkey and whale .
We will fuck all foreign government which help mullah.
کیر سگ تو کس ننه سید اولاد پیغمبر و کس ننه خود پیامبر اسلام.
کیر خوک تو کس ننه امام حسین.
کیر خر تو کس ننه شیعیان.
صلوات: الله و کیر خر تو کس ننه محمد و آل محمد.
This is a beautiful cultural message for you.
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This is making your site more and more popular. And with this increase in reputation as superbly as PageRank you can envisage to appreciate your site in effect superiority gamy in those Search Motor Results.
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